🎧 Jensen Huang: Founder and CEO of NVIDIA

👤 Jensen Huang · EN 13,995w · KR 3,112w

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So, nice to be here. Thanks. Welcome to the inaugural podcast for a bit personal. The inaugural? Yeah, the inaugural. You're the first one. So, I'm the first. You were the first that I asked and you said yes at one second. Oh dear. So, you regret you said yes. Well, I didn't realize it was going to be a bit personal. Yeah. Yeah. We're going to go deep. Okay. Yeah. Well, just keep it nice and shallow. You like that better anyway. So, okay. So, what do you So, the concept of the podcast Yeah. is that the general public is really very interested in people like you that are determining the future of technology, which is the future of their world, right? So, it's let's find out what your values are, your personal story behind your public success. You like that concept? No, not really. Yeah. Not really. But you're a celebrity. I People want to know about celebrities. I don't see myself as a celebrity and and um I'm not a celebrity. I I just happen to run a very important company and and I'm the the CEO of of uh one of the most successful technology companies in history. Um we uh we made some good decisions a long time ago. uh you know 1993 uh we wanted to reinvent computing and we had a perspective about how computers ought to be built and and it was it was a not very popular view for a very long time and it was rather controversial in fact and everybody thought that uh microprocessors and CPUs and this is the time you and I met I mean you know most people don't realize I mean the audience probably don't realize that you and you and I met 1994 probably 1993 late you know that kind of Right. And so, uh, Nvidia was was, uh, uh, trying to do then what we're trying to do now, reinvent computing. And, and, um, at the time in Silicon Valley, as you know, uh, it was during the era of CPUs and Moore's law and the PC revolution. Mh. And in fact, all of your early customers, right, were all PC chipset startups. They they were the formation of the fabulous semiconductor industry. Cirrus Logic, S3, Western Digital, Trident. Remember all those companies? Yes. Those those were the the the forefathers of of Nvidia. And uh um and and here we here we are. Uh we're trying to we're trying to create a new computing approach. And it took it took 33 years for this to happen. Um but I just I just happened to be the CEO of that company. That's all. And it it happened really um for maybe not for you but for the world it happened very suddenly. It was basically November of 20 2023 the whole world changed. So how was that transition? Well you know in in order to create the future you have to live in the future long before it happens. And it's to be honest when we first when we first started CUDA we invented the technology. The thing that I'm really proud about Nvidia is we're great at inventing technology but then inventing products to carry the technology to market. You know there are countless companies who and researchers inventors who have created technology and they they're the people that said uh that say things like oh um I did that before. uh and or I thought of that or I invented that or you know um and so anyways it always it always kills me um that all these great inventors didn't also have the benefit of having great product inventors. These are the innovators that take these inventions that then invent products to take it to market. But then you also have to invent strategies to take it to market. Right? And then you have to invent in fact even the market. You have to shape the market to receive your products that you invented and the strategies that you developed and and Nvidia was was a is really built to be a company that can invent technology, invent products, invent strategies and invent ecosystems and markets and we've done that repeatedly. And so I I think the in a lot of ways I've been living in this future for a long time. There was a there was a strategy a long time ago. We don't do it as much anymore, but it was called CUDA everywhere. and and people tell tell stories of me shleing cuda, you know, to universities and startup companies and established companies and um I I shle CUDA everywhere and and um sometimes there'll be a there'll be an audience of literally three people and I would pull out my and back then, you know, I pull out my laptop and and you know, and present CUDA and tell them about why this is going to be why this is going to change the world. And I I visited researchers and laboratories and went to conferences. Uh you know, I put put on more more coupile than any human in the world. And and so so I for a for a long time I've been living in this future. You tell the story long enough, you kind of feel like it's happened. Mhm. Um and and so I I think I think all of this is still a great great delight. And um uh you know in in my mind it's not surprising because the first principles that we built the company on are fundamental principles. They're not based on a hunch or it's not based on you know a taste or it it's on fundamental principles of computer science. And and so what is happening now uh isn't in a lot of ways inevitable. The thing that that I would say though is that um by making something go incredibly fast, if you would make something go a thousand times faster or a thousand times larger or a thousand times smaller, what whatever that is, some phase change happens and that phase change and the and the the result of that the state that it results in is surprising. Okay. And so so I think in a lot of ways um we knew that deep learning could be a lot larger. That's which is the reason why we pivoted the whole company behind it. We knew that Alexet couldn't have been the end of it and that the architecture is something that's quite scalable and the amount of data in the world is abundant. And so that was a natural resource we felt that was was achievable. The one technology that that I knew was going to be an obstacle to us was unsupervised learning or self-supervised learning that the that the computer could learn by itself without human labeling because humans would be the bottleneck and and when that happened uh I knew we were off to the races and and you know people still I I was just on an investor road show and and people tell me that that I told them right around that time that there was a phase change and if you go back and listen to my earnings call when I jump into jump into a topic that that's really important for the world. Um I emphasized it really really clearly and I talked about on every single uh investor road show and everywhere I go I would talk about those things and that unsupervised learning is or self-super supervised learning has really made a great achievement and then now we're then the scaling laws were unleashed and then we were boom you know off to the races. Now the the the type of problems we're able to solve as a result of that is still surprising to me, you know, because you knew the face shift would come and you knew the the platform shift would come. But all as a result of of all that, we're now learning the language of proteins and we're learning the language of cells and we're learning the language of you know quantum and we're learning the language of all these representations of all these different things and and the language that we used to represent information in the past is now being reinvented. you know, everything from geometries and textures to now 3D gouge and splats and and all of these different representation, you know, it's kind of like like all of a sudden we became so smart that the English language actually got changed, okay? That we no longer use the words and vocabulary and structure and grammar that that we use because all of a sudden we became so much smarter that we we can communicate in another dimension. And so we're maybe beeping and blpping at each other. You know, it's, you know, it's kind of like that that movie Arrival, you know, all of a sudden we're just looking at shapes. And the amount of information just looking at shapes, um, you know, causes to be able allows us to communicate at much much deeper way and much faster way. And so, so it it's incredible that we're we're not only solving problems that are completely unimaginable before and and we're doing it at a speed now. what used to be Moor's law time, you know, Nvidia's time, Nvidia law time is completely right. I mean, it's a thousand times faster. And so the next 10 years is going to be extraordinary. That that I think is that that's exciting. So the the kind of confidence that it takes to do what you did to be able to see into the future and be absolutely confident that it's going to happen. So we, as you said earlier, we met in 1994. So I've been the same since. I know. Yeah. I was in my 20s. You maybe are a little bit older than me hopefully. I was 29 when 30 when Yeah. So I remember our very first meeting at the um headquarters in Sunnyville way or something. Exactly. It's a it's a massage parlor or something. Yeah. Acupuncture parlor. Yeah. That makes sense. Anyway, I I was interviewing you for a magazine and you and I said, "So, Jensen, are you worried about sort of the rotating door in Silicon Valley, people coming and going?" Because a lot of CEOs are complaining about this. And again, you're 29 or 30 years old. And you were like, "Hm, Jody, Nvidia is neither a church nor a prison. You don't have to come and you don't have to stay." And I remember being so impressed by I was like, "Who is this guy?" Such confidence and such wisdom at a young age. And I remember Morris Chang has a similar story when he first met you that you immediately said, "I'm going to be your biggest customer or one of your biggest customers." And he's like, "Wow, that is that's a lot of gumption." Mhm. So, where did that confidence come from at such an early age? Well, you know, it it's it's rough to know everything, you know. I'm just kidding. No, I by the way, Morris will be happy to know Nvidia is TSMC's largest customer now. Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure he's very proud of you. Yeah. And and I'm proud of him. The the uh we were his largest customer during the PC revolution. Okay. And now we're his largest customer again, and I'm very happy about that. Um you know, I I say that you you you have to believe what you believe. And so so your belief shouldn't be based on anecdotal you know somebody said something therefore you believe it. You have to reason through for what reason do you believe this and break down um your reasoning into into sound first principles and and and then you have to you have to check it on a regular basis that that these these principles that you're you're building everything that you you believe on believe in and are doing are sound that the foundation is sound. And if it's if it's not sound, if if it changed for some reason, it wasn't a first principles, maybe it wasn't wasn't defined by anchored in physics or anchored in ground truth or something like that. If that changes, then you reevaluate and you move on. And so so I've always lived in that way. Okay. Um and so if you believe in something, you owe it owe it to yourself to do something about it. And uh I believed in in what we're doing. I believed it in 1993. I believe it today. and and and therefore if you believe this then so what and just keep reasoning through it and then you know I I I'm doing that reasoning exercise in my head continuously I'm constantly you know re-evaluating constantly extrapolating I'm constantly re-evaluating the past and that's you know if you're having meetings with me and yesterday we're we're we're having meetings uh uh in so many different meetings, I would reason through um uh the past again. And this is how we got here and and notice um all of those assumptions were right, but some of those assumptions were in fact wrong. And as it led to this led to this moment, we we were agile and we readjusted. But it's always good to go back in time and re re-evaluate and re-reason through that. It it teaches you how to reason forward. And so, so because I've always done that, um, I you know, I I just live in that truth. And, uh, to this day, I still believe that I still feel like I'm an employee of this company. And, uh, I care about this company a lot, but there are a lot of employees that care about this company a lot. The CEO was always designed to be uh in a well-governing well-governed cu uh company. uh the CEO was was always designed to report to the board of directors and the board of directors report to shareholders and and um uh if the CEO uh doesn't do his job you know according to 12 13 15 board members who are however size the the board is the CEO is let go and so so therefore it's an employment in in an institution um and and it's not like a church because not everybody gets to come and it's not like a prison because not everybody has to stay, right? And so that state of mind keeps you grounded. It keeps you humble. It keeps you um keeps you fresh. You're always earning your job. And you know, sometimes people ask me, you know, Jensen, do do you love your job? Um, I don't love my job every day, but I do it to my mightiest every day, right? And and um I and I think that that that comes from that whole package of of recognizing that one, I'm the best person for the job. I believe that. And two, I have to earn being the best person for that job every day. So I mean you have been you are Nvidia and Nvidia is you. I mean that's you've become that I'm the most frequently taken picture of the people of Nvidia. Yeah. But whoever is the next CEO of this company is going to be the is can there really be a next CEO of this company? Well there will never be one like me and and um and the reason for that is because because I was raised by the company. You know, when I first started started in video, I didn't know anything about being CEO or strategist or or product maker or, you know, industry creator or, you know, I I I didn't know how to do any of that. Um, I knew how to raise money. I didn't know how to talk to shareholders. Um, understand the sensibility of shareholders and policy makers and, you know, country leaders and, um, company leaders. I didn't know any of that. I didn't know the sensibility of employees and how to create a culture. and what does it even mean to to say culture? Um I I couldn't formulate a company strategy if I tried. And so that was day one. And in that 30 in this 33 years, uh I I've become better at all of that. And and um I you know, if there's if there's a if there's ever a Yoda of company strategies, you know, and and and industry creators, you know, probably looks, you know, a short little guy like me. And so, and so I I think the um I I've dedicated my my career learning these things and I'm a good student. Um and I also bring bring to the job a level of intensity and and deep care that it's harder to hire into. you know, there in a lot of ways, you know, Nvidia is is one of my children and and um I care about it uh as if it's one of my children and and um and my children even help me, you know, raise those children and and and so so in a lot of ways in a lot of ways I feel about it um that that is hard to replace that that is true, but that's because I've been doing it for 33 years and I I've seen every aspect of it. It's its successes and failures and setbacks and um things that it did, you know, smart and dumb and stupid and, you know, I I I I've seen all that. And so you I have a feeling about this company that you can't you can't easily replace by hiring somebody who's who's just good at doing something. And so so I get that. Um uh on the other hand uh the way that the Nvidia management team is set up uh I've got almost 60 direct reports right and and I have six there are 60 people who could be world-class CEOs for many other companies and I reason in front of them constantly I mean literally all the all the time and every single decision I made I've made in front of them. I've I've reasoned through it in front of them. Um uh I've spoken about successes and setbacks and challenges and adversity all in front of them. And so in a lot of ways the Nvidia has 61 CEOs and and so um and they care deeply about this company. You know, many of them have been here for a long time, 33 years in some cases. And so so I I um I think Nvidia has just been built uh like no other company ever has been built and it also speaks to our resilience like no other company will have. So obviously that kind of um structure that you have is very legendary in the industry now. Um everybody talks about it these nearly 60 reports. So in order for that to work those people have to be exceptional. Yeah. Okay. and not just brilliant because there's a lot of brilliant people in Silicon Valley. They have to be exceptional specifically for Nvidia. Yeah. So tell me a little bit about how you curate those people. And then secondly, there's been many times that you didn't hire in a position until you found the right person. And I'm thinking specifically of Colette. You interviewed 22 CFOs before you hired her. And now she's, you know, she's a legend in her her own right uh on Wall Street. So maybe how did you choose her and how do you how do you curate those types of people? What do you look for? Uh an empty empty chair is better than a chair filled with the wrong person and so I'm never in a hurry. um the company will keep moving on and and whether it's a missing CEO or missing you know VP of anything the company will keep moving on and and um and so you just have to have the the confidence of what I just said. If you if you can convince yourself of what I just said that these two ideas, the empty chair and the company is going to keep moving on, then it buys you enormous amounts of time until you find somebody that is a combination of a lot of things, including you just like them. Mhm. you know, uh, Colette on his on on her first week, I think she asked me, um, you know, Jensen, how long do you want me to be your CFO? And I said, for as long as we shall live and death do his part. Yeah. Yeah. Because the alternative doesn't make sense. Any other answer is the wrong answer. For what reason is there an end date? And the end date is when when um I you know she decides Nvidia is no longer right for her. That applies to Colette. That applies to all 60 of the Nvidia to work reports and and um I I keep chairs open for a long time. Mhm. And the company just keeps on carrying on and and people people swarm the the mission, you know, whatever whatever the mission is, whatever the job that needs to be done, people will swarm it anyways. And worst case, I'll do my best and just carry on, right? You know, and so so I that that's just a philosophy. Don't don't ever fill a chair with the wrong person. Wait until the right person comes along. and that right person, you know, I'm asked all the time, what what makes a great what makes a great employee, what makes a great leader. Surprisingly, I don't have the answer. Okay? And the reason for that is this. Um, they're all smart. They're all competent. You find me a you find me a a CFO somewhere and I promise you they're competent. and they're competent enough and so so that you hire you find me a you you find me a whole bunch of functions you find me a CEO and I'm I work with CEOs all over the world and they are all competent let's just be clear about that right and and many of them when I'm working with them I was like gosh you know you're super competent and super smart it's all completely true and yet in the end what makes the magic of Nvidia is a combination of the the the chemistry of the people that are together. Um um but mostly I would tell you that it's it's just corporate character and that character comes from somewhere. That's what defines great companies. Somehow uh there are a lot of companies building chips. We invented the GPU, but we're from a volume perspective, we're the smallest GPU company in the world. I know it sounds weird, but we are. Everybody makes more GPUs than I do. It's like, you know, some random person makes more GPUs than we do. And so, so clearly, clearly it's not that. Um and so so I think the the somehow somehow there's a magic in in in the corporate culture, the corporate character. Um how how teams come together during adversity. Um, I mean, people see us just kind of strolling through life, but getting Grace Blackwell into production, uh, almost broke our company's back, but it but we wouldn't let it. Um, it is just extraordinarily complicated and incredibly large scale and the expectations were incredible and for us to live up to it and exceed it um with with it almost breaking our back that that's 100% character, right? That's not intelligence. That's not hard work. Um, there are a lot of people that work hard. There are a lot of people that are super smart. That is 100% character. where that comes from. Um, you you just you you can't interview that into existence, you know. And the thing that that I believe is this. I actually kind of believe that you can bring almost anybody into Nvidia and we will instill character into you. and and um that I think is the magic of our company that that somehow we could we could suffer pain and we can we can endure incredible challenges and come out of the other side, right? And we could do it over and over and over again. And very few companies can do that as a team. Usually somebody gets left behind. You know, usually what happens is you you go through one of these incredible challenges and then somebody leaves because of a bad feeling or because they were blamed and they were fired or they were um uh they they somehow felt uh it's always, by the way, it's always somebody's fault. I I don't want to, you know, let's let's be clear about about building companies and and teams. at the end of the game we lost as a team but there's no question who dropped the pass and so we have to be clear about that and and and we are clear about that and because because we have such a safe environment um all the people who drop passes in the in the past including myself and I've dropped plenty passes and and the the passes I dropped you know everybody's watching the nobody's been fired for dropping passes And so, so this company has has developed a culture, a personality, um, a lot of it reflecting our own that tolerance and forgiveness and and and um, learning from mistakes and so long as so long as maybe a couple things that's really super important to me. So long as the team play the teammates gave everything of themselves, um, that's good enough for me. So yeah, is that I mean you have a reputation for really not liking to fire people and hopefully no one likes to fire people, but so that's your theory that it's that you have to make these people better or your team has to make them better. Yeah. Like the company made me better. Mhm. You know, I I wasn't that I I wasn't then what I am today, you know, and and what I know today. Um you know, no volume encyclopedia could hold it. and and um you know if somebody were to ask me what did I learn over at Nvidia and write a book I I wouldn't even know where to start you know and just and so so this company gave me the chance to become what I am and this company also gave the entire management team the opportunity to become what they are and I gotta tell you 100% of those 60 people are different today than they were when they started. I can tell you they're great today. We were fine in the beginning. We're good in the beginning like anybody else. And so, so the the company tortured greatness out of us. And the the company forged incredible character into us. That's the magic of this company that you could do that not lose the person and the company not giving up on you, right? simultaneously. That's our greatness, I think. And and can you can you can you hire people into that? Yes, I believe. So, and I've proven repeatedly that we've done that. And and and the people that come in, they're good. And I see them and and I'm good. And they're good. So long as I enjoy working with them, you know, they have to they they can't be a jerk. And so long as they can't be self- serving, they can't be, you know, I can't I can't work with people that that can't answer simple questions, they that's my trigger. Um I to the extent that they really want to be part of the team. Um they can be transparent. They can be vulnerable and they can learn. They don't have to know it all, you know, they just have to learn it all, you know, and and um to the extent that that all of that is true, we'll we'll um we'll forge greatness into them. This episode is brought to you by GSME. GSME is a leading global provider of tailored silicon solutions dedicated to empowering semiconductor and system companies with cutting edge technology and unparalleled expertise. Founded in 2022 by Farhot Jawenir, its comprehensive range of services include end-to-end chip design, full turnkey manufacturing capabilities, rigorous quality assurance, and strategic incubation to help its partners bring innovative products to market. At GSME, they are committed to transforming semiconductor manufacturing landscape by optimizing processes, accelerating product development cycles, and ensuring faster time to market for next generation applications. GSME gives full visibility of the supply chain to its customers. Now, back to the episode. So, you talk a lot about pain and suffering as kind of building blocks of Nvidia and you've That's our secret sauce. Yeah. And you've said before that Yeah. Come work with me. That's my gift. It's very attractive. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So what do you think about I mean if you're if you're person it's you know when people when people ask you know why why come work at Nvidia pain and suffering is a a big part of it right was there ever any sort of sacrifice that you made that was too big for what you accomplished at Nvidia no everything was worth it um you you have to do it Right. I think I think um I I was I was fortunate in my case it was for I was fortunate because Lori Lori Madison Spencer were were kind of you know grew up with the company and and um I was fortunate that Lori always had a great interest in a company and and she didn't met all but she knew everything about the company. she just, you know, dedicated herself to read everything, learn everything, and always be there. And and um she's never missed an event. Um she's never even missed one of our campy little shareholder meetings back in the old days when we did it live. and and and so so um uh and her interest and dedication to supporting the company and me um rubbed off on the kids and and the kids read everything, watched everything, came to everything. Um you know, they they probably they probably listened to more bad speeches of mine than any human ever. And and um the pain and suffering the pain and suffering of that. And so I was I was fortunate that they they had the interest in the company and loved the company the way I loved the company. And and so so my sacrifices for the company um probably for that reason didn't translate directly into a sacrifice for them. Mhm. I I missed most of the most of the karate tournaments and I missed most of their practices and um well nearly most is is too generous for me but I would say nearly all. Um and so and back in the old days we didn't have smartphones and so the the definition of going to work means going to work and it meant missing every dinner. It miss it meant missing every weekend. Um, and so, you know, I that's what we did. And so I was fortunate that that um, you know, our family chemistry made it made it possible for for them to not feel alienated, you know, they they felt part of it the whole time. Right. Right. You know, and Yeah. No, I think that integration of family life and work life, I mean, it it works for some people. It worked for me, too. I mean, my children, the um my youngest went to meet Morris Chain when he was four months old. Yeah. You know, so they um they've known this industry and been around it for the whole time, too. So, and which one did I meet? You met Elijah. Elijah, right? Then my youngest is Hudson. Okay. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He interviewed you when That's right. Yeah. He was terrific. Yeah. What's he doing now? He works at Ferrari. Wow. No way. Very cool. No way. Okay. Well, I know who to call to get the first EV. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then the youngest is um is going to be a filmmaker. So he's at NYU film school. Is that right? Wow. Okay. Well, one of these days when they make a documentary of you, I guess. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. one of um one of the um I think one of your best characteristics or skill because you could say it's either is that although you're for sure the hardest working billionaire in the world maybe Elon would argue with that but but you are when you're with someone you're allin they have your undivided attention it's as if you have nothing better to do than sit down and talk to me and you make people feel special that's a rare gift. So, tell me a little bit about that intentionality and what others can learn from it because I think it's one of the most important gifts or again skills. I'm not sure which it is. Mhm. I appreciate that. Um I I think it's it's a humility and respect, you know. I I think the the um I love watching people cook. I don't know about you, but I love watching people cook. I love watching people do gardening. I love watching people do things they they love and that they're good at. Um, when we go to restaurants, I I always prefer to sit at the bar. So, I mean, closer to the kitchen. Um, I love watching people do their work. Um, because, you know, I I respect the the their artistry. I respect their craft. that respect. I I I'm, you know, I'm inspired by by them dedicate dedicating themselves to the work that they do. And um and you're always learning something. M you know you you come out of that that moment and you you're enriched you're slightly enriched you know by by uh something you learned or greatly enriched by a new thought or you know and and so so I I think from that perspective another perspective is is I always want to help I want your show to be great not for me but for you. Thank you. And I want your your work to be great. And when somebody comes to me to ask me for help, I want them to succeed. If a CEO calls me and and these, you know, these days I have a lot of CEOs who call me to ask for partnership or what, I want them to succeed, not for my benefit, for his benefit, for their benefit. And and um I en always enjoyed meeting Julie Sweet. I want her to succeed. You know, she's a fantastic CEO. I want her to succeed. Sure. Right. Yeah. And and so the list goes on. You know, I I want um I love watching people other people succeed and and I love that I was able to help a little bit. And um I'm not sure where that comes from, but it's a combination of these two things. You know, I'm I'm here because I want to I want you to be able to get the most out of your opportunity. I want you to be able to launch this inaugural, you know, a little bit too personal. Is that what you call? Yeah. A bit person. A bit personal. Okay. A little bit too personal. Yeah. That's That's the new That's my new title for you. A little bit too personal. We'll change it. You know, I bet a little bit too personal is probably catchier. Yeah. Yeah. We'll go rebrand it. It came from Jensen. Anyhow, that's I think that's the reason why. So, you know, this philosophy of um of pain and suffering talk about it a little bit more. So, I recently heard Andy Karp on a podcast and I don't wear a watch. Yeah. And as you know, uh everybody everybody at Nvidia is told when I'm doing something, you know, don't bother me. Okay. Everything else can wait. We'll be here till lunch if that's what it takes. If that's what it takes. So Andy Carb said that um you can either enjoy your 20s or you can be successful. Do you believe that philosophy? I mean is it I mean is it really that a person has to I mean you know not everybody is going to be the CEO of Palunteer, the CEO of Nvidia, but what does it take for a young person? What is the message to young people about their career and their success? M yeah. Um gosh, Alex is so smart and he's got all kinds of very deep philosophies and um I the the uh I guess I'm kind of low-key about all that stuff. Um you know, I I personally think it's pretty incredible that Morris worked until his 80s. he's still sharp as a knife and and that, you know, if there's a definition of a late bloomer, you know, look up late bloomer in Wikipedia, it's probably going to be, you know, picture of Morris. And so, how is that a bad thing that that you get to you get to enjoy the the most productive times of your life and you get to do it for 50 years, you know? Mhm. And and and if that's the case, if and and I'm kind of of that same cut, same cut. I mean, I I would really love that I'm doing something productive rather than, you know, the clicheing things, you know, I'm going to go travel the world for the rest 20 years of my life and or which is fine, you know, which is fine. I mean, but I'm traveling the world now. And and um I I I also think that that during our 20s I I will have to agree that in my 20s I feel smarter. I can concentrate with greater intensity. Um, I think faster and but but the thing that that I would say is completely missed is all of the ability to be wiser, to be more nuanced, um, to be more strategic, uh, to think to think longer term. Um, I I think all of that is missed in the 20s. And I don't I don't I don't know how you learn those things by not living those things. You could always repeat those things by reading it. Mh. And you could always, you know, these days you could always watch YouTube and and and and be and if you're s sufficiently empathetic, you could kind of, you know, feel what other people are are going through. So you could maybe live their life, you know, through live their life through them, live your life through them and and somehow uh gain that wisdom by watching. Uh so so imitation learning is a real thing. And and so I think that that's terrific. But there's but there's a there's a there's a the the grit um that comes along with enduring um the the the knowledge of how to deal with pain and suffering, the feelings of it. Not not the physical feelings, but the emotional toil and going through the the agony part of it, the fear part of it. Um and there are real fears. I mean, you know, fear is a real thing in running companies. We're we have to we have the lives of tens of thousands of people and, you know, in the decisions we make. Uh when things are not going well, uh to not feel fear, um to not feel anxiety, to not feel vulnerability, uh you know, makes you in fact a bad leader. to be so crass that that you don't even care that how things are going to turn out. And so I don't know how you how you learn those things without actually going through it. And and so I I I I guess I see it both ways. If you if you could succeed early, your energy is abundant. You know, you could stay up later, pull allnighters, and you could work 10 times harder. Um uh but there's something that's just really that I that I feel I have today that I I really didn't have in my 30s. And and as a result, even though I'm not thinking as fast as I used to, I come to the right answers faster because I have the benefit of wisdom and patterns and, you know, better strategy thinking and and so, you know, I'll go toe-to-toe with a 20-year-old all day long. I believe that. Yeah. Yeah. They got they got nothing on me. So, let's get a little bit too personal. Okay. Okay. So, tell me about um a little bit about kind of the highlights and low lightss of your childhood that you think impacted that you can specifically trace to impact some characteristic that you have now. maybe just kind of walk us through the um coming from Taiwan to to the US and that ordeal or that experience, the journey when when I was I I I don't think I'm extraordinarily or spectacularly intelligent. I'm I'm not any I don't think I'm an outlier. um when I was a kid and during that time even entering schools you you have to take tests and and apparently I did very very well in the test and and this is you know back then you have to do national tests and things like that and I did very well on the test and and I I kind of remember my mom always just telling everybody telling me that that you're incredibly smart and and um whether that whether that was actually true or not, the fact that my mom kept saying it over and over again probably was was helpful. And it it kind of put a it put a burden on me to need to be smart. And so maybe maybe um maybe that's that's one of those things about about parenting and leadership that when you when you set expectations that are beyond um beyond reason uh on some people and on on your company in a lot of ways they rise to it. And um you could also imagine people cowering from it. Um but in my case it just didn't do that. it it it helped me rise to it. Um that that's that was an important you know it comes to mind I guess. Uh another one another one I I would say is just witnessing witnessing um someone do something. You know we were learning how to speak English and my my mom didn't even know how to speak English but it didn't stop her from every single day teaching us English. I mean, how how is it possible that somebody who has no clue of English be teaching us English? And my mom didn't even graduated from high school, I don't think. Okay. And and um and so she just bought a Webster's dictionary and and uh you know, wrote wrote the English word. She learned how just by looking at the patterns, wrote the word and wrote the Chinese translation, folded a piece of paper in half and and then made made us uh you know memorize all these words and um I don't know if we were pronouncing it right and but anyhow that that that taught me something about about someone with with incredible will that even if you don't know how to do something it shouldn't stop you, you know, how hard can it be, right? And and so um I remember that when I was a kid. Um I remembered I remembered um uh going to Kentucky and my job. I was the youngest kid in school and and um Onita Baptist Institute is on top of a hill and every day I had to walk down this this hill and cross a river and then cross you know a really large field and then there's a little there's a little school there and that's where I go and um and along the way uh you know kids would would you know because I the first Chinese kid ever show up in Kentucky. It was 1973. And so so the the the town kids were were kind of rough and they were rough rough on me when I crossed that bridge. And the the hanging bridge had wooden planks and the bridge and the water's way down there and and um I got across this and some of the planks were missing um and and they'd be on the other side waiting for me. you know, and um I'm 9 years old. Wow. And I did that every day. Pain and suffering. You know, you're 9 years old. Here's a river. Here's a hanging bridge. Wow. Wooden planks. Some of them are missing on the other side. That's the worst news. You make you live to make it across the bridge. That's when you then you're in trouble, right? Yeah. But I I did that every day, every morning. And um and then in the afternoons, I come home and my job was to clean the bathrooms, you know, every every kid had every kid had a job. My older brother, he's he was 11. His job was to work in the tobacco farm. And um that was my job, clean the bathrooms, and I did that every day. And you think any of those people know where you are now? Uh uh the president of Anita Baptist Institute just sent me an email. They're quite they send me Christmas present every year. Okay. And they sent me uh they they know I love sausage and gravy and biscuits. And you learned that in Kentucky. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Oh my gosh. I And when I went back uh I think it was my 45th birthday or something like that. My my family took me back there and and the and the the cafeteria ladies that cooked when I was there, they're still alive and they came back to cook a meal for me. Wow. Yeah, that's incredible. It was incredible. Yeah, they made they made um Kentucky uh sausage and gravy and biscuits. It was It was delicious. So, did your parents get to see your success? Yeah. Yeah, they're still around. They're great. Good. Good. Yeah. Yeah. I just saw they're so proud of you. They are. Yeah. Yeah, they are. Okay. Yeah. They they know every detail. My dad reads everything. Okay. He he he uh he he he reads everything and and everybody who says, you know, things that that are that are some somewhat derogatory or adversarial towards me, you know, he he gets mad. And so I tell him, don't read everything. You're going to be mad all the time. Don't read the bad press. Yeah. You're gonna be mad all the time. That's cute. Yeah. So, what do you what do you miss about sort of life before all this insanity? So, you know, you were maybe the mundane things that you don't you're a car guy. You don't even get to drive anymore. No, you were the the first and only person that I've ever known that owned a um what is it? Keg. A Koenigseg. Kenseg. Yeah. Christian's an amazing architect. He's an amazing designer. That's a great car. Yeah. When you turn it when you turn it on, it sounds exactly like a Batmobile. Wow. Yeah. And it's a like a sevenstep process to turn it on because it's that it's that powerful. You can't just let anybody turn on. Wow. Yeah. I don't have it. I don't have it anymore. Okay. I don't I don't drive anymore. Right. You miss that? Yeah. A little bit. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of cool to I mean, I still look at the cars, you know, the new Ferraris and, you know, I I I still I still enjoy looking at them. I think they're pretty terrific. Yeah. Yeah. Great feats of engineering. They really are. It's amazing. I've been to the Ferrari factory and it's amazing to watch and to to learn that that what started out as an industrial instrument equipment then evolved into uh you know our our largest consumer consumption and and and uh and then now it now many of these are pieces of art. You know they are Yeah, they're incredible. Yeah. So, it's great to see that this episode is brought to you by Maverick Silicon. So, if uh if we're sitting here five years from now, podcast is hugely successful because of this inaugural podcast. What's the world look like in five years from now and what what's going to surprise us the most about what the world looks like? Um so if you if we go back to first principles and and then we gauge it with with pragmatism and practicality um and then all the sensibilities about about adoption of technology and um the impact of technology there's several things that I would say I I think first of all the work that we're involved in and what Nvidia's work in and artificial intelligence and and the rest of industry's work in this area. Um there's no question that that the computer um has will completely transform from something that we uh that we we uh program uh to something that programs itself with a great deal of guidance from us. And so we we still had to tell it, you know, what what what do we want you to go learn? And so in the in the past we would we would uh teach uh a computer Japanese. Uh but in the future we would tell the computer to go learn Japanese. And so so now the the way the way that we use computers will be transformed of course. Uh the computer will be able to deal with with problem sizes that are a billion times larger than anything we're working on today. And so in in a way we can't even comprehend what that means because because coming up with a solution is one thing even formulating a problem in our head to go solve is a completely different thing. And many problems uh many solvable problems are limited by own imagination about how to formulate the problem and how to think about the problem. And so the size of the problem that we can we can engage whether it's the complexities of digital biology um or the complexities of of physical sciences or quantum physics or you know all of the things that are material sciences that's going to be easy. Um all of the type of things you know even mundane things like traffic jams a lot of these things are going to be largely easy. Um smart grids there's so much waste in the grid. um you know artificial intelligence will go figure out how to uh how to how to deploy energy just enough energy okay and instead of overprovisioning energy we've got a lot of energy that's wasted and so so the the idea of of um uh of AI being able to solve those what is largely mundane problems is is going to be quite incredible and so every field of science will be infected will be affected every every hard problem today will be turbocharged and um when the tool when the instrument when the tool is way way faster then the problem looks way smaller and so let me give you an example if if if an airplane were to travel you know Mach 10 um then obviously the world becomes a smaller place and because of because of jet planes we made the world smaller world used to be a lot bigger right and so so it's the same thing with with the computers Nvidia makes because of what we make is so much faster. We made every problem smaller to the to the point where one day researchers at OpenAI said, "Hey, why don't we just take all of the internet data and just give it to this computer?" Because all of a sudden, all of the world's internet data looks so small. These days, when we look at all of the world's internet data, it looks tiny to us because the computers have become so fast. And that that attitude will pervade almost every field of science. You know, back in the old days, everybody goes, "Wow, this is a really hard problem." Now it's going to look really simple. And and so in five years time, that is going to be the state of mind of every scientist, engineer, entrepreneur, innovator, all of those hard problems now just look really simple. And so as a result, we're going to solve more problems. So, so that's that's one outcome. Another outcome of course is that companies will be incredibly productive. What is hard problems today, what are hard problems today are going to be simple problems tomorrow. And so, um, managing our supply chain will be way easier so we have hardly any waste. Um, designing our computers are going to be way easier and so we can try more examples. Not that we'll not that we'll we'll release more computers than we are today. We do it once a year, but we'll we'll try more iterations of these examples of computers so that the one that we release every year is so much better. Um I uh let's see that's that's one. And so our company will be more productive. We'll make more profit. Every company will be more profitable. All be richer. Yeah. We we'll be more profitable. Um, one of one of the manifestations of it though as as I connect these two ideas is if every problem that that that we dream up looks more more tenable, then we're going to come up with more problems to solve. And so instead of instead of having no lesser job fewer jobs, I actually feel what's likely to happen is that we're going to be busier than ever. And the reason for that is because we're going to think of more and more ideas of things that we can solve now that we didn't used to be able to solve. All those things that were off the table are now on the table. And all of the experiments we it was too expensive to try, they're all every experiment should be tried and or the AI is going to help us go try those experiments. and and so to the extent that we have imagination and we have a lot of problems that we we were deferring or we couldn't solve before I think they're all going to be on the table. Um, one thought experiment is imagining. So today when I when I'm working, I'm surrounded by 60 geniuses and they're surrounded by a few thousand geniuses. And in my case, I'm surrounded by 60 people who are all better at what they do than I am. In a lot of ways, they're basically artificial super intelligent relative to me in in their field. And yet, I've got no trouble working with all of them. And so I I think that in the future and and the AIs that I use now with OpenAI and Gemini and Grock and you know I use Perplexity and and um Anthropic and you know all of these all of these AIs in in their way they're already smarter than I am and and yet I've got no trouble working with them every day. And so that's number one. But what's really interesting though is that when I formulate problems for for my team to go do, I often have the benefit of waiting the two or three or four days for them to go find the answer or formulate the answer back to me. That allows me to then go think about the next step and then thinking about the next step because in order for me to think through my steps, I need intermediate answers to come back. What if those answers come back basically in a second? That's the thought experiment. My day, my days would be insanely busy now because I'm now the critical path of everything. And so I've got to go, okay, now I've got the answer of that. Therefore, I got to think about this. I got to kick off another experiment. Now I've got the answer to that. I, you know, and so I I feel that we're busier today because information technology is faster today. Wouldn't you say? Yes. We're getting information and knowledge and, you know, answers so fast now. It puts us in a critical path. Therefore, we're busier than ever. I have a feeling that a lot of people are going to feel that way. And then and then lastly um for the people that that um weren't didn't benefit from uh the technology industry that you and I had the benefit of being part of all of a sudden artificial intelligence closed that technology divide. You know, one of the one of my favorite things is just vibe coding. Anybody could be a software programmer now. And and vibe coding is creating software that you know is better than a lot of software programmers. And so I love the work that Curser does. I love, you know, I met the CEO of Loveable the other day and he's terrific guy and and a startup in Sweden and and I'm really happy to see that. And so so I think that that AI is going to close the technology divide and everybody who who are really gifted at their craft, but maybe they don't know how to scale themselves with technology, they now have AI to help scale them. And so one of the stories that that the Loveable CEO was telling me is all these companies, all these people are creating basically small businesses and from the software that was written by Lovable, they're making $23 million a year now. That's incredible. It is. And so they're welcomed into, you know, the world's economy um not burdened by technology anymore because AI made that possible. And so, so I I have a feeling that that the five years from now it is likely that we're all going to be more gainfully employed that the economy is going to be more productive uh hopefully the GDP actually grows uh because of the short you know overcoming the shortage the labor shortage that we have um and uh inflation will go down um you know a lot more fields of sciences are are being tackled. Now, of course, there's the there's the doomer view, the ext the other view, which is, you know, half of the world's jobs will be lost and things like that. I I think that that it's more likely that 100% of the world's jobs will change than 50% of the world's jobs will be lost, right? And and it's very likely that 100% of people who don't have jobs today because of AI can make a living. And um and of course you know our technology would change a lot but that that's the part that that's less interesting. I think I think you know in 5 years time to us the computer is still a computer. The applications are just smarter but they look like applications and they're still software. We're doing e-commerce. um maybe we don't go to websites anymore, but our agents do the shopping for us, but they're still buying it from Amazon and others. Right. Right. And so I think a lot of things will probably stay the same. And then maybe maybe just one wish list is you know I wish that that um and I hope that not wish but I hope that the work that we're doing with with robotics and and human robotics you know turn into something and and uh you know we we all have our own version of R2-D2 and C3PO's running around and you know they're they're cute and adorable. you know, like during during GTC, my my uh at the end I always have the the Disney robots on stage and how adorable are they? And you know, why shouldn't everybody have them? And you know, and and I and I hope I hope that that um I hope that uh that Disney decides to to merchandise them because, you know, they're so adorable. They're so incredible. My pets my pets need pets, right? And so Momo and Kuma needs their their own version of pets. And and so I I I hope that that that happens because there are a lot of lonely people and and I actually have been approached by several that that that hopes to have um robots that they can interact with at home because they're living by themselves and they're getting older and uh you know and so there there are a lot of different reasons why these robots could be quite quite helpful and not not to mention they're just adorable. And so that's that's an extra bonus of all the things that we're doing. someone to cook and clean, will you watch them cook as they're will you enjoy it as much when the robots are cooking? You know, well, the answer is yes. And the reason for that is because I have all the resources today to not cook. And I yet I do. Yeah. Right. Right. And so I don't have to. I choose to. And we could be surrounded by all kinds of staff, but we're not. You know, Lori and I are just by ourselves. And and uh she made chili last night. It was really terrific. And you know, she made it by herself. And we'll probably we'll probably continue to do all that. And and our favorite moments are our favorite moments my my single favorite moment is is when when the kids you know come over and and um you know and and we're all cooking and you know enjoying cocktail and that that that's the perfect perfect day. Great bonding in the kitchen that goes on. Yeah. That's that is that's as good as it gets. You know that's what we do all this for for that moment. That's exactly right. Yeah. So, how do you at the end of the day, how do you want to be remembered when it's all said and done? Um, well, first of all, it's nice to be remembered and and um I I I'm fortunate that because of of what Nvidia has done um and what we've built and the impact that we have in the single most important technology industry in the world. Um the most important instrument of humanity, computers, uh that that Nvidia will likely um long beyond long long beyond me uh be be important to the world. And uh I was I was fortunate to have been a a founder with Chris and Curtis. Uh I was fortunate to have um stayed on top of the pile um you know as and and continue to learn and and and not be not be the reason the company went out of business but but often times the reason the company stayed in business that I've built something um that is quite consequential to the world that it wasn't just consequential to an industry or to a community but but a company that's that's really genuinely consequential to the world like not not many people in the world gets to say that right you know that that I was the founder and I'm here um enjoying this and and doing this that the company turned out to have been what it was what it is and um to have the impact on on so many other industries literally every single industry in the world uh to have employees that have been here for 33 years and and their lives enriched. Uh second generation and even third generation employees are now starting to work here. um uh that we're able to to uh grow an employee base, you know, around the world that they're they're in is Israel and and um uh and and be able to to to share with them um you know, their desperation and then now their joy and their hope and and and to share with them their sorrows. And um not many people get to say they they they're not not many get to experience that and to be part of that and and then and then build an employee base all over the world. And you know in China, I'm proud of them. Um our employees in Taiwan, I'm deeply proud of them. And and all of our employees in India, I'm so proud of them. and and you know and um our European employees, you know, and and so many of my Canadian employees, you know, we have we're growing a large Canadian base and and uh and and one of these days, I'm hoping that that Nvidia gets to gets to extend ourselves into the global south, you know, the the rest of the world that that wants to be part of what we what we all enjoy today. Um uh I was just talking to somebody yesterday about the work that we're doing in Africa and um uh the work that we should be doing more in in Latin America and there's so in Southeast Asia um I'm so proud of of of um the impact that our company has and so how do people remember me? um they'll probably remember me as um as you know a founder and and builder of Nvidia. That's probably that's probably and a good guy. Well, that that goes without saying. you know, he has a great he's a he has a great sense of humor and and he doesn't take himself too seriously and and um I you know he in a lot of ways I'm still a reluctant CEO. You know, I I I like being inside the company more than I like being outside the company. Um, I like not giving speeches than giving speeches and and um I like not giving keynotes at all and and yet, you know, I have to do it and and so I'm I'm a highly reluctant CEO. Um, but I'm a very enthusiastic Nvidia builder and and any aspect of my job that that is necess necessary to do to do that, I'll do. And and so that's a long-winded answer for I have no idea what people remember me as. Well, I think it's always fun when the when the good guys win. So, I love I love watching your success. I've loved it all of these years. It's been fun to watch all the ups and downs. You've seen everyone to the right. Yeah, it's great. You've seen everyone. You've seen absolutely everyone. and and and just as a reminder to to all the CEOs, you know, nobody does it alone. Mhm. you know it we are the CEO but somebody had to be and and um if not for the generosity really you know your generosity early days um talking about Nvidia and and uh um you know all of those all of those uh Morris Chang awards didn't didn't hurt you know that was probably the Morris Chang award was probably the first award I ever received that was that meant something. Wow, that's very cool. I love that. You know, that that was in somebody else's name and and that he he um uh actually played a role in in selecting and um that meant a lot to me. It means a lot to me today. And um and and and the generosity of all the companies that we work with, you know, I I'm, you know, CEOs CEOs need help and I I have no idea how many times I've I've started conversations with that. I need your help, right? You know, and and often times I really need your help and you're really the only person who can help me and and um and people have been generous and gracious to to uh help me along the way, you know, uh share with me their knowledge and uh teach me how to do things and help me get things done. And you know, and so I I that's maybe the real life lesson of CEOs. It's surprisingly a vulnerable. Yeah. A lonely position too, right? Yeah. It can be. It can be. Yeah, it can be. And but Jody, I would say it's probably lonely in our heads. Mhm. It's in our head. It's lonely. in our headsp space is lonely because you're trying to solve a problem that sometimes are kind of tricky and and you're talking to yourself, you know, and for a long period of time, right? You know, so many many many challenges almost every transition in our company, every phase shift, every time I reinvent the company, I've spoken to myself probably I don't know how many thousands of hours, right? and and in that time you're quite lonely, you know, and but but it but we we also have to recognize that everybody wants to help us. They want us to succeed and like you know, you said earlier, you you like watching me succeed. I know you want me to succeed and I want you to succeed. And so in a lot of ways, we're not alone that way, right? And so so we're, you know, CEOs are a surprisingly vulnerable skill. it's a or profession maybe that you know it you're you can't do anything alone and so you're you're at the mercy of almost everybody. you're the charity of everybody and and you know maybe maybe the world make makes it look like we're formidable leaders but we're the most vulnerable of all the people in the company and and um and and I often say you know I'm the only person in the company who can't get anything done without other people's help. Yeah. and and that I think that's true for all for most CEOs. And and so that that's the that's the learning maybe, you know, that that CEOs are are um more vulnerable than than they they allow themselves to feel. And but I got no trouble with that. I'm not I've got no trouble feeling vulnerable. This episode is brought to you by Morgan Stanley. Morgan Stanley celebrated its 90th anniversary last year and its tech investment banking team has prided itself in working with the most innovative entrepreneurs and leadership companies for decades. During that time, they've led IPOs for hundreds of tech companies including Apple, ARM, Astera Labs, Broadcom, Cisco, Facebook, Google, Nvidia, Salesforce, and Uber. In addition, they worked as a trusted adviser and executed thousands of M&A transactions for some of the most industry-defining deals in technology. Throughout the years, Morgan Stanley's tech investment banking team success has been achieved by dedication, consistency, and a northstar purpose of helping its clients to maximize their opportunities and overcome their challenges. Now, let's get back to the episode. Okay. So, um I'm about to wear out my welcome. I think I've been here a long time. Why are people You know, they've been they've been taught to not do that. No, no, no. No one has. No one has. I'm just kidding. So, um we're going to end on um some rapid fire questions that I call the last tape out. Wow. Okay. Okay. Don't tell me um don't Yeah. Yeah. Don't Don't tell me when my last tape out is. See, now I'm I'm holding myself because this is the part I don't like. Okay. Go. Who's the smartest person you you've ever met? Who's the smartest person I've ever met? Um, I can't answer that question. And I know I know what people are thinking. The definition of smart is somebody who's intelligent, solve problems, technical, and and um but I find that that's a commodity. And we're not we're about to prove that artificial intelligence is able to handle that part easiest, right? Yeah. And so so as it turns out um let me give you another example. Uh everybody thought software programming is the ultimate smart profession. Look what is the first thing that AI is solving? Software programming. And so it turns out that the definition of smart is very different than most people think. And um I think long-term the definition of smart and my my personal de definition of smart uh is is um someone who sits at that intersection of of being um technically astute but but human empathy and um and having the ability to infer the unspoken, the around the corners, the unknowables. Um you know, people who are able to see around corners are are truly truly smart and and um and that their value is incredible. uh to be able to preempt um uh preempt problems before they show up just because you feel the vibe. And and the vibe came from a combination of uh data, analysis, first principle, life experience, wisdom, um sensing other people. Mhm. Uh that vibe that I think that's smart that I think is going to be the future definition of smart and that person might actually score horribly on the SAT. Right. And so anyhow, okay. Okay. What's a misconception people have about you? These are hard questions. First of all, I don't know what they're what's their give me an example of a conception they have of me that you um love to be in the public eye, that you're a great you know, you're a great speaker, so you love to give speeches. And you already said that that's not true. Yeah, that is not true. Right. That is in fact exactly the opposite of what I love. Um public speaking scares the living daylights out of me. It scares me not at the moment. It's right now I am I am in deep anxiety over GTC Washington DC coming up. It's two weeks away. Okay. Less than two weeks away. And I am deeply anxious. I've been deeply anxious for a week, excuse me, a month. And so so these things these things wear on me. Um they're always in my mind and and uh they stress me out. Um, so I I I don't know how to explain it. Okay. Yep. If you work companies meetings scare me to death. Yes. Scare me to death because I'm I'm, you know, I'm on stage and they're the most important people in the world to me. It is the single most important speech that I give in a lot of ways. But it's impossible to prepare for it. and and um and everything I can tell them on a presentation I've already said on some video somewhere. They ought to just go watch that. And so I hate I hate to regurgitate, you know, talks to them. Uh because they you would never do that to your family. You wouldn't you would never come home and and give your GTC talk, you know, to your family. And and I hate doing that. And so it has to be genuine. It has to be unique. It has to be useful, has to be meaningful to them, has to make a difference. I'm still leading the company. There's still an out outcome that I'm looking for. And so, you got to do all of that and you've got to do it fresh. That is and and so I have no idea how it's going to turn out until it turns out. And so, the entire time, you know, during earnings week, people think that the earnings is stressful to me. Not even a little bit. Okay. The company meeting stresses me out. So, so the conception is exactly wrong. Right. Right. Yeah. That's good. Okay. What is your favorite vacation spot? Uh, wherever my family is and wherever we're cooking, having cocktail. Okay. And and uh but if I had to name two places and one place or two, it's hard for me. Um but I can tell it's my favorite vacation spot because I know I'm happy landing. I'm always happy landing in in Hawaii. Okay. And because we're all all we're we're typically together. Um I'm I'm really happy when I when we land in Taiwan and and the reason for that is because the people are great. Um uh I've got really important partners there and long-term friendships there and my family is oftentimes with me. Um um I'm I'm genuinely happy when I land in Japan. Okay. And and the reason for that is because um I have very very long memories of Japan and how important it was to saving our company and and uh the early business trips that I've I've been there. Uh even though business-wise largely unproductive over the years, I still I still um en somehow have have great joy landing there. And so maybe those are kind of three places and and and my family's my family's oftentimes with me when I'm landing. Okay, that's good. Yeah. Pet peeve. People who don't listen to my question, understand my question, answer my question during important times. Okay. When we're dealing with very hard situation, very difficult times, and we need we need facts. We need facts. and I ask a question like that, if somebody doesn't answer it, it triggers me almost instantaneously. Good. And and the reason for that is because I don't understand why the person underappreciates the context of this meeting that we're doing something really important and that we're trying to get to the truth and we're trying to get there. We need to get there fast. I just don't understand. I never understand and I don't understand to this day. Okay. And somehow it always triggers me. And if somebody wants to trigger me, that's the way to do it. That's the way to do it. We know the trick to making Jensen mad. Okay. Um, one last question that someone asked me recently, and I love this question. It's if you if you had to be 20 years old all over again, would you do it today or would you relive in our day? I would relive it in our day. And the reason for for that is because I thought that our 20s um was happier than these 20s. And and um I think every I think everyone deserves some time uh to be oblivious and not to have not to wear all of the world's problems on their shoulder on day one. I I just don't think it's necessary. Nobody can convince me of it otherwise. that that that there's some there's some joy in ignorance and there's there's a superpower in ignorance. Nvidia it would not be power would not be would not be power it would not be possible today if not for the fact that I was ignorant to the fact that it's impossible to build Nvidia. Right. Right. In fact it's impossible to build Nvidia. You can't build Nvidia. You just can't. But nobody can convince me otherwise because I didn't know any better. And I think that optimistic people, you can't convince them that they can't make it better. They're so ignorant. They're so oblivious to the truth that they are optimistic. How is that a bad thing? And I feel that we're we're we're raising generation of of very cynical, too informed. They're cynical not because they're they're they're inherently cynical. They're cynical because they just see so much stuff, right? It's too much stuff. There's time for that. You know, we got to we have to build up some internal reserve of optimism. We have to build up some internal reserve of goodness that you see only the good. You have to find a way to to to build up that that muscle. Yeah. We we had the opportunity to do that way more than than people do today. Yeah. And we did that in our 20s. Yeah. When we're optimistic, we're super human and and everything was possible, you know. And so that I would choose my early 20s. Okay. A good note to end on. Ignorance is bliss. Ignorance is bliss. And ignorance is a superpower. And anybody who who um uh who tackles a a new adventure, um if if not for ignorance, they they would they would think it's too hard to even engage it. And uh I'm I'm I'm really really quite fortunate to have been so infor I've been I was informed and and hardworking um you know I I had some capabilities but but the ignorance was was um helpful to me and I approached everything with this attitude how hard can it be? Now it turns out it's really hard. You have no idea. Yeah. You have no idea, right? Look at what you built. And if you would have known everything then that you know now and all the feelings and all the setbacks and all the disappointments and you bottle all of that up and you put it all in one place, you would never do it, you know, and and I would never do it. And and so I think the the ignorance was a superpower. And and then the other the other thing that's a superpower is having, you know, having no endgame. Nvidia has no endgame. People ask me, Justin, what's your plan? We don't have one. Staying in business is our plan. You know, we we we have we have future dreams of the world and we imagine how technology would be different, but staying in business is 100% the plan. And and somebody asked me once, and I get asked all the time, I guess, Jensen, what are your what are your what are your goals, life goals? I don't have any, you know, just working, staying employed, being able to do good work, surrounded by amazing people. That's that's the goal. And and so in a lot of ways, you know, having no endgame is is uh really has been really helpful to Nvidia. Okay. Yeah. So, anyways, that's my endgame point for the end of the show. I love it. Thanks for being my first guest. This was super fun. Thank you. This was terrific. Great to see you. Great to hang out with you. Yeah, you too.

=== PART 1/5 ===

진행자: 여기 오셔서 정말 반갑습니다. 감사합니다.

진행자: ‘A Bit Personal’의 첫 번째 팟캐스트에 오신 걸 환영합니다. 첫 번째요?
Jensen Huang: 네, 첫 번째요.
진행자: 당신이 첫 게스트예요.
Jensen Huang: 그러니까 제가 첫 번째군요.
진행자: 제가 제일 먼저 부탁드린 사람이 당신이었고, 당신은 1초 만에 ‘네’라고 했죠.
Jensen Huang: 아이고.
진행자: 그러니까 ‘네’라고 한 걸 후회하는 거예요?
Jensen Huang: 음, 이게 이렇게 ‘개인적인 이야기’까지 갈 줄은 몰랐죠.

진행자: 네. 오늘은 깊게 들어갈 거예요.
Jensen Huang: 알겠습니다.
진행자: 네.
Jensen Huang: 그럼 그냥 예쁘게, 얕게만 가죠. 원래 그게 더 좋잖아요.

진행자: 좋아요. 그러면… 그러니까 이 팟캐스트의 컨셉은요,
진행자: 대중이 당신 같은 사람들에게 정말 관심이 많다는 거예요.
진행자: 기술의 미래를 결정하는 사람들이고, 그게 곧 그들의 세계의 미래이기도 하니까요.
진행자: 그래서 당신의 가치관이 무엇인지, 공적인 성공 뒤에 있는 개인적인 이야기가 무엇인지 알아보자는 거죠.

진행자: 그 컨셉 마음에 드세요?
Jensen Huang: 음… 솔직히 말하면, 별로요.
진행자: 네, 별로죠.
진행자: 그런데 당신은 ‘셀러브리티’잖아요. 사람들은 셀러브리티 이야기를 알고 싶어 해요.

Jensen Huang: 저는 제가 셀러브리티라고 생각하지 않아요. 그리고… 음… 저는 셀러브리티가 아닙니다.
Jensen Huang: 저는 그저 아주 중요한 회사를 운영하고 있을 뿐이고,
Jensen Huang: 역사상 가장 성공한 기술 회사 중 하나의 CEO일 뿐이에요.
Jensen Huang: 우리는 오래전에 몇 가지 좋은 결정을 했죠.

Jensen Huang: 그러니까 1993년, 우리는 컴퓨팅(computing)을 재창조하길 원했습니다.
Jensen Huang: 컴퓨터는 어떻게 만들어져야 하는가에 대해 우리 나름의 관점이 있었고,
Jensen Huang: 그 관점은 아주 오랫동안 인기가 없는 관점이었습니다.
Jensen Huang: 사실 꽤 논쟁적이었죠.

Jensen Huang: 모두가 마이크로프로세서(microprocessor), CPU(중앙처리장치) 이야기만 했고…
Jensen Huang: 그리고 그때가 바로 당신과 제가 만난 시기였죠.
Jensen Huang: 그러니까 대부분 사람들은 모르지만, 당신과 저는 아마 1994년, 혹은 1993년 말쯤 만났어요.
진행자: 맞아요.

Jensen Huang: 그때 NVIDIA는 지금 우리가 하고 있는 것과 같은 일을 하려 했습니다. 컴퓨팅을 재창조하는 것.
Jensen Huang: 그리고 당시 실리콘밸리는, 당신도 알다시피, CPU와 무어의 법칙(Moore’s law), PC 혁명의 시대였죠.
진행자: 음.

Jensen Huang: 사실 당신의 초기 고객들이 전부 PC 칩셋 스타트업들이었잖아요.
Jensen Huang: Cirrus Logic, S3, Western Digital, Trident. 그런 회사들 기억나죠?
진행자: 네.

Jensen Huang: 그런 회사들이 NVIDIA의 선배 격이었어요.
Jensen Huang: 그리고 지금 우리는 여기까지 왔습니다.
Jensen Huang: 우리는 새로운 컴퓨팅 접근법을 만들려고 하고 있어요.

Jensen Huang: 이게 일어나기까지 33년이 걸렸습니다.
Jensen Huang: 하지만 저는 그냥 그 회사의 CEO였을 뿐이에요. 그뿐입니다.
Jensen Huang: 그리고 이 일은… 제게는 아닐 수도 있지만, 세상에겐 정말 갑자기 일어난 것처럼 보였죠.
Jensen Huang: 사실 2023년 11월에 세상이 바뀌었으니까요.

진행자: 그 전환을 겪는 느낌은 어땠나요?
Jensen Huang: 음… 미래를 만들려면, 미래가 실제로 오기 훨씬 전부터 그 미래 안에서 살아야 합니다.
Jensen Huang: 솔직히 말하면, 우리가 처음 CUDA(CUDA)를 시작했을 때… 우리는 기술을 발명했죠.

Jensen Huang: NVIDIA에서 제가 정말 자랑스러워하는 건, 우리는 기술을 발명하는 데 강하다는 겁니다.
Jensen Huang: 그런데 그 기술을 시장으로 가져가기 위한 ‘제품’도 함께 발명한다는 점이죠.
Jensen Huang: 수많은 회사와 연구자, 발명가들이 기술을 만들어놓고는
Jensen Huang: ‘아, 그거 내가 먼저 했는데’ 혹은 ‘그거 내가 생각했는데’ 혹은 ‘내가 발명했는데’ 같은 말을 하잖아요.

Jensen Huang: 아무튼… 저는 그런 걸 볼 때마다 마음이 아파요.
Jensen Huang: 위대한 발명가들이 ‘위대한 제품 발명가’의 도움까지 받지 못한 경우가 너무 많거든요.
Jensen Huang: 발명(invention)을 시장으로 가져갈 제품(product)을 발명하는 혁신가들이 따로 필요합니다.

Jensen Huang: 그런데 거기서 끝이 아니에요. 시장으로 가져갈 ‘전략(strategy)’도 발명해야 하죠.
Jensen Huang: 그리고 사실 ‘시장(market)’ 자체도 발명해야 합니다.
Jensen Huang: 우리가 만든 제품과 전략을 시장이 받아들일 수 있도록 시장을 ‘형성’해야 하니까요.

Jensen Huang: NVIDIA는 기술을 발명하고, 제품을 발명하고, 전략을 발명하고,
Jensen Huang: 생태계(ecosystem)와 시장을 발명하고 만들어내는 회사로 구축되어 왔습니다.
Jensen Huang: 우리는 그걸 반복해서 해왔어요.

Jensen Huang: 그래서 여러 면에서 저는 오랫동안 이 미래 속에서 살아왔다고 생각합니다.
Jensen Huang: 예전에 ‘CUDA everywhere’라는 전략이 있었죠. 요즘은 예전만큼은 안 하지만요.
Jensen Huang: 그리고 사람들이 제가 CUDA를 ‘팔고 다녔다’는 이야기를 하기도 해요.

Jensen Huang: 대학에, 스타트업에, 기존 대기업들에… 저는 CUDA를 여기저기 들고 다니며 설명했습니다.
Jensen Huang: 때로는 청중이 3명뿐인 경우도 있었어요.
Jensen Huang: 그럼 저는 노트북을 꺼내서(그때는 그랬죠) CUDA를 보여주면서
Jensen Huang: ‘이게 왜 세상을 바꿀 건지’를 설명했습니다.

Jensen Huang: 연구자들을 찾아가고, 연구소와 실험실에 가고, 컨퍼런스에도 다녔죠.
Jensen Huang: 저는 인간 중에서 누구보다 많은 ‘couple’…(아무튼 정말 많이) 했을 겁니다.
Jensen Huang: 그래서 오랫동안 저는 이 미래 속에서 살아왔어요.

Jensen Huang: 이야기를 충분히 오래 하면, 마치 이미 일어난 것 같은 기분이 들기도 합니다.
진행자: 음.

Jensen Huang: 그래서 지금 벌어지는 일들은 제게 큰 기쁨입니다.
Jensen Huang: 제 관점에서는 놀랍지 않아요.
Jensen Huang: 우리가 회사를 세운 ‘첫 원칙(first principles)’이 근본 원칙이기 때문입니다.
Jensen Huang: 어떤 감(촉)이나 취향이 아니라, 컴퓨터과학(computer science)의 근본 원칙이죠.

Jensen Huang: 그래서 지금 벌어지는 일은 여러 면에서 ‘필연적’입니다.
Jensen Huang: 다만 제가 말하고 싶은 건 이런 겁니다.
Jensen Huang: 어떤 것을 1,000배 빠르게 만들거나, 1,000배 크게 만들거나, 1,000배 작게 만들면
Jensen Huang: 어떤 ‘상전이(phase change)’가 발생합니다.

Jensen Huang: 그리고 그 상전이 이후의 상태는 놀라울 수 있어요.
Jensen Huang: 우리는 딥러닝(deep learning)이 훨씬 더 커질 수 있다는 걸 알고 있었습니다.
Jensen Huang: 그래서 회사 전체를 그쪽으로 피벗(pivot)했죠.

Jensen Huang: 우리는 AlexNet(AlexNet)이 끝이 아니라는 것도 알았고,
Jensen Huang: 그 아키텍처가 꽤 스케일 가능하다는 것도 알았습니다.
Jensen Huang: 세상에는 데이터가 풍부하니까요.
Jensen Huang: 우리는 그걸 달성 가능한 ‘자연 자원’으로 봤습니다.

Jensen Huang: 그런데 제가 장애물이 될 거라고 확신했던 기술이 하나 있었어요.
Jensen Huang: 비지도학습(unsupervised learning) 또는 자기지도학습(self-supervised learning)입니다.
Jensen Huang: 사람이 라벨링(labeling)해 주는 게 병목이 되니까요. 인간이 병목이 되면 안 됩니다.

Jensen Huang: 그리고 그게 일어났을 때… 저는 우리가 ‘레이스에 들어갔다’고 느꼈어요.
Jensen Huang: 저는 얼마 전 투자자 로드쇼(investor road show)를 다녀왔는데,
Jensen Huang: 사람들이 말하더군요.
Jensen Huang: 제가 그때쯤 ‘상전이가 왔다’고 이야기했다고요.

Jensen Huang: 제 실적 콜(earnings call)로 돌아가서 들어보면,
Jensen Huang: 세상에 중요한 주제에 들어갈 때 저는 정말 명확하게 강조합니다.
Jensen Huang: 저는 모든 투자자 로드쇼에서, 그리고 어디를 가든 그런 얘기를 했어요.
Jensen Huang: 자기지도학습이 큰 성취를 이뤘고,
Jensen Huang: 그 다음 스케일링 법칙(scaling laws)이 풀리면서… 붐, 우리는 달리기 시작했다고요.

Jensen Huang: 이제 우리가 풀 수 있는 문제의 종류는 여전히 제게도 놀랍습니다.
Jensen Huang: 플랫폼 전환(platform shift)과 상전이가 올 건 알고 있었지만,
Jensen Huang: 그 결과로 우리는 이제 단백질(proteins)의 언어를 배우고,
Jensen Huang: 세포(cells)의 언어를 배우고,
Jensen Huang: 양자(quantum)의 언어를 배우고,
Jensen Huang: 그리고 수많은 것들의 표현(representation)의 언어를 배우고 있어요.

Jensen Huang: 과거에 정보를 표현하던 언어 자체가 지금 재발명되고 있습니다.
Jensen Huang: 기하(geometries)와 텍스처(textures)에서 시작해,
Jensen Huang: 이제는 3D ‘gouge’와 ‘splats’ 같은 것들까지요.
Jensen Huang: 이런 다양한 표현들이 등장하고 있습니다.

Jensen Huang: 마치 우리가 갑자기 너무 똑똑해져서 영어 자체가 바뀐 것 같은 느낌이에요.
Jensen Huang: 더 이상 예전의 단어, 어휘, 구조, 문법으로는 소통하지 않고,
Jensen Huang: 다른 차원에서 소통하는 거죠.
Jensen Huang: 서로 삐빅, 블립블립 하는 식으로요.

Jensen Huang: 영화 ‘Arrival’처럼, 갑자기 우리는 형태(shape)를 보고 소통합니다.
Jensen Huang: 형태만 봐도 엄청난 정보가 담겨 있어서,
Jensen Huang: 훨씬 더 깊고, 훨씬 더 빠르게 소통할 수 있게 되는 거죠.

Jensen Huang: 그래서 우리는 상상조차 못 했던 문제들을 풀고 있고,
Jensen Huang: 지금은 그 속도가… 예전에 무어의 법칙 시간 스케일, NVIDIA의 시간 스케일이라고 부르던 것과 완전히 다릅니다.
Jensen Huang: 1,000배 더 빠른 수준이에요.
Jensen Huang: 그래서 앞으로 10년은 정말 extraordinary(엄청날) 겁니다.
Jensen Huang: 그게 저는 흥분되는 부분이에요.

진행자: 미래를 볼 수 있고, 그게 일어날 거라고 확신할 수 있는 자신감이란…
진행자: 그걸 가능하게 한 건 뭘까요?
Jensen Huang: 우리가 아까 말했듯 1994년에 만났죠.
Jensen Huang: 저는 그때랑 똑같습니다.
진행자: 알아요.

진행자: 당신은 20대였고, 당신이 저보다 조금만 더 나이가 많길 바라지만…
Jensen Huang: 그때 저는 29살, 혹은 30살쯤이었죠.
진행자: 네.

진행자: 첫 만남이 Sunnyville(그렇게 들리네요) 본사였던 걸 기억해요.
Jensen Huang: 맞아요. 마사지샵 같은 데였죠.
진행자: 네, 침술원(acupuncture parlor) 같은 데요.

진행자: 아무튼, 저는 잡지 인터뷰를 하고 있었고,
진행자: ‘Jensen, 실리콘밸리에서 사람들이 자주 들어오고 나가는 회전문 같은 문화가 있는데 걱정되나요?’라고 물었어요.
진행자: 당시 많은 CEO들이 그걸 불평하고 있었거든요.

진행자: 그런데 당신은 29~30세였는데도,
진행자: ‘Jody, NVIDIA는 교회도 아니고 감옥도 아닙니다. 올 필요도 없고, 머물 필요도 없어요.’라고 했죠.
진행자: 저는 그 자신감과 그 나이의 지혜에 정말 감탄했어요.

진행자: ‘이 사람 누구지?’ 싶었죠.
진행자: Morris Chang도 당신을 처음 만났을 때 비슷한 이야기를 했어요.
진행자: 당신이 첫 만남에서 ‘저는 당신의 가장 큰 고객이 될 겁니다. 혹은 그중 하나가 될 겁니다.’라고 했다고요.
진행자: 그는 ‘와, 엄청난 배짱이네’라고 했죠.

진행자: 그 어린 나이에 그런 자신감은 어디서 왔나요?
Jensen Huang: 음… 모든 걸 아는 건 어렵죠.
Jensen Huang: 농담입니다.

Jensen Huang: 그런데 Morris는 기뻐할 거예요. NVIDIA는 지금 TSMC의 최대 고객입니다.
진행자: 네.
진행자: 그가 정말 자랑스러워하겠네요.

Jensen Huang: 저도 그를 자랑스럽게 생각해요.
Jensen Huang: PC 혁명 시절에도 우리는 그의 최대 고객이었습니다.
Jensen Huang: 그리고 지금도 다시 최대 고객이 됐죠. 저는 그게 정말 기쁩니다.

Jensen Huang: 저는 이렇게 말합니다. ‘자기가 믿는 걸 믿어야 한다.’
Jensen Huang: 그런데 그 믿음은 ‘누가 뭐라더라’ 같은 일화(anecdotal)에 근거하면 안 됩니다.
Jensen Huang: 왜 그걸 믿는지, 그 이유를 첫 원칙으로 분해해서 생각해야 해요.

Jensen Huang: 그리고 정기적으로 점검해야 합니다.
Jensen Huang: 내가 모든 걸 쌓아 올린 원칙들이 건전한지, 토대가 건전한지요.
Jensen Huang: 만약 건전하지 않다면,
Jensen Huang: 예컨대 그게 물리(physics)나 ‘그라운드 트루스(ground truth)’에 닻을 내린 첫 원칙이 아니어서
Jensen Huang: 어느 날 바뀌어버린다면, 그러면 재평가하고 이동해야 합니다.

Jensen Huang: 저는 항상 그렇게 살아왔습니다.
Jensen Huang: 그래서 무엇인가를 믿는다면, 그 믿음에 대해 스스로에게 ‘행동’으로 빚을 져야 해요.
Jensen Huang: 저는 우리가 하는 일을 믿었습니다. 1993년에도 믿었고, 오늘도 믿습니다.
Jensen Huang: 그러니 ‘믿는다면, 그래서 뭐 할 건데?’가 되는 거죠. 계속 그 믿음을 끝까지 추론해보는 겁니다.

Jensen Huang: 저는 머릿속에서 그 추론을 계속합니다.
Jensen Huang: 끊임없이 재평가하고, 끊임없이 외삽(extrapolate)하고,
Jensen Huang: 끊임없이 과거를 다시 해석하고… 늘 그렇습니다.

Jensen Huang: 어제도 회의가 정말 많았는데,
Jensen Huang: 저는 회의 중에 과거를 다시 논리적으로 재구성합니다.
Jensen Huang: ‘우리가 이렇게 왔고, 이 가정들은 맞았고, 저 가정들은 사실 틀렸고,
Jensen Huang: 그 결과 우리는 민첩하게 조정했다’ 같은 걸요.

Jensen Huang: 시간을 되돌아가 재추론하는 건 늘 유익합니다.
Jensen Huang: 그게 앞으로를 추론하는 법을 가르쳐 주거든요.
Jensen Huang: 그래서 저는 그 ‘진실’ 속에서 그냥 살고 있습니다.

Jensen Huang: 그리고 지금도 저는 여전히 제가 이 회사의 직원이라고 느낍니다.
Jensen Huang: 저는 이 회사를 정말 아끼지만, 이 회사를 아끼는 직원은 저만이 아닙니다.

Jensen Huang: ‘잘 거버넌스가 되는(well-governed) 회사’에서
Jensen Huang: CEO는 원래 이사회(board of directors)에 보고하도록 설계되어 있고,
Jensen Huang: 이사회는 주주(shareholders)에 보고합니다.

Jensen Huang: 그리고 CEO가 일을 못 하면,
Jensen Huang: 이사회가 12명이든 13명이든 15명이든(이사회 규모가 어떻든)
Jensen Huang: CEO는 해임됩니다.

Jensen Huang: 그래서 이것은 ‘기관(institution)에서의 고용(employment)’입니다.
Jensen Huang: 교회처럼 아무나 들어올 수 있는 것도 아니고,
Jensen Huang: 감옥처럼 누구나 반드시 남아야 하는 것도 아니죠.

Jensen Huang: 그 마음가짐이 사람을 땅에 붙잡아 둡니다.
Jensen Huang: 겸손하게 만들고, 신선함을 유지하게 해요.
Jensen Huang: 당신은 늘 자신의 자리를 벌어야 합니다.

Jensen Huang: 가끔 사람들이 묻습니다. ‘Jensen, 당신은 당신의 일을 사랑하나요?’
Jensen Huang: 저는 매일 제 일을 사랑하진 않아요.
Jensen Huang: 하지만 매일 제 ‘최선의 힘(mightiest)’을 다해 합니다.

Jensen Huang: 그리고 그건 이런 패키지에서 나옵니다.
Jensen Huang: 첫째, 저는 제가 이 일에 가장 적합한 사람이라고 믿습니다.
Jensen Huang: 둘째, 저는 매일 그 자격을 ‘벌어야’ 한다고 믿습니다.

진행자: 그러니까… 당신이 NVIDIA이고, NVIDIA가 당신인 느낌이죠.
진행자: 사람들이 그렇게 말하잖아요.
Jensen Huang: 저는 NVIDIA 사람들 중 가장 자주 사진에 찍히는 사람이긴 하죠.

진행자: 그런데 다음 CEO가 있다면… 정말 다음 CEO가 있을 수 있나요?
Jensen Huang: 저 같은 CEO는 절대 없을 겁니다.
Jensen Huang: 왜냐하면 저는 회사가 저를 ‘길렀기’ 때문입니다.

Jensen Huang: 제가 NVIDIA를 처음 시작했을 때,
Jensen Huang: 저는 CEO가 되는 법도, 전략가가 되는 법도, 제품을 만드는 법도,
Jensen Huang: 산업을 ‘만드는’ 법도 몰랐습니다.
Jensen Huang: 저는 그런 걸 어떻게 하는지 전혀 몰랐어요.

Jensen Huang: 자금을 조달하는 법은 알았지만, 주주에게 말하는 법은 몰랐습니다.
Jensen Huang: 주주의 감각(sensibility), 정책결정자(policy makers)와 국가 지도자(country leaders),
Jensen Huang: 회사 리더들의 감각도 몰랐죠.
Jensen Huang: 직원들의 감각, 문화를 만드는 법, ‘문화(culture)’가 대체 뭔지도 몰랐습니다.

Jensen Huang: 회사 전략을 정식으로 세우는 것도 못 했을 거예요.
Jensen Huang: 그게 첫날(day one)이었습니다.
Jensen Huang: 그런데 이 33년 동안 저는 그 모든 것에 더 나아졌습니다.

Jensen Huang: 그리고… 만약 회사 전략과 산업 창조의 요다(Yoda)가 있다면,
Jensen Huang: 아마 저처럼 키 작은 사람이겠죠.
Jensen Huang: 저는 제 커리어를 바쳐 이걸 배웠고, 저는 ‘좋은 학생’입니다.

Jensen Huang: 저는 이 일에 ‘강도(intensity)’와 ‘깊은 애정(deep care)’을 가져옵니다.
Jensen Huang: 그건 채용해서 바로 심을 수 있는 성질이 아니에요.
Jensen Huang: 여러 면에서 NVIDIA는 제 아이들 중 하나 같은 존재이고,
Jensen Huang: 저는 진짜 제 아이처럼 회사를 아낍니다.

Jensen Huang: 제 아이들도 저를 도와 그 아이(회사)를 키워줬고요.
Jensen Huang: 그래서 저는 이 회사에 대해,
Jensen Huang: 단지 ‘무언가를 잘하는 사람’을 데려와서 대체하기 어려운 감각을 가지고 있습니다.

Jensen Huang: 하지만 반대로, NVIDIA의 경영진 구조는 이렇습니다.
Jensen Huang: 저는 직속 보고(direct reports)가 거의 60명입니다.
Jensen Huang: 그리고 그 60명은 다른 회사에 가면 ‘월드클래스 CEO’가 될 수 있는 사람들입니다.

Jensen Huang: 저는 그들 앞에서 늘 추론합니다. 정말 문자 그대로 ‘항상’요.
Jensen Huang: 제가 내린 모든 결정은 그들 앞에서 내렸고,
Jensen Huang: 그 과정의 논리를 그들 앞에서 풀어냈습니다.

Jensen Huang: 성공, 좌절, 도전, 역경을 모두 그들 앞에서 말했습니다.
Jensen Huang: 그래서 어떤 의미에서 NVIDIA에는 CEO가 61명 있는 셈이에요.
Jensen Huang: 그리고 그들은 이 회사를 깊이 아낍니다.

Jensen Huang: 많은 사람들이 아주 오래 일했습니다. 어떤 사람들은 33년째예요.
Jensen Huang: 그래서 저는 NVIDIA가 다른 어떤 회사와도 다르게 구축되었다고 생각합니다.
Jensen Huang: 그리고 그건 우리 회복력(resilience)을 보여주는 것이기도 하죠.

진행자: 그 구조는 이제 업계에서 전설이 됐죠.
진행자: 거의 60명의 직속 보고가 있다는 얘기는 모두가 하니까요.
진행자: 그게 작동하려면 그 사람들은 예외적으로 뛰어나야 해요.
Jensen Huang: 네.

진행자: 그냥 ‘똑똑’하기만 해서는 안 되고, 실리콘밸리엔 똑똑한 사람은 많으니까요.
진행자: NVIDIA에 ‘맞는’ 방식으로 예외적이어야 하죠.
진행자: 그 사람들을 어떻게 큐레이션(curate)하는지, 무엇을 보고 뽑는지 듣고 싶어요.

진행자: 또, 당신은 적임자를 찾기 전까지 포지션을 비워두는 경우가 여러 번 있었죠.
진행자: 특히 Colette 이야기가 떠오르는데,
진행자: 당신이 그녀를 뽑기 전에 CFO 후보를 22명이나 인터뷰했다고요.
진행자: 지금 Colette는 월가에서 그녀 자체로 ‘레전드’죠.
진행자: 어떻게 그녀를 선택했고, 어떤 사람을 찾는 건가요?

Jensen Huang: 빈 의자(empty chair)가 잘못 채워진 의자보다 낫습니다.
Jensen Huang: 저는 절대 서두르지 않아요.
Jensen Huang: 회사는 계속 굴러갑니다.

Jensen Huang: CEO가 비어 있어도, 어떤 VP가 비어 있어도, 회사는 계속 갑니다.
Jensen Huang: 그래서 아까 말한 두 가지를 스스로 납득할 수 있다면,
Jensen Huang: 즉 ‘빈 의자’와 ‘회사는 계속 움직인다’는 생각을 납득할 수 있다면,
Jensen Huang: 적합한 사람을 찾을 때까지 엄청난 시간을 벌 수 있어요.

Jensen Huang: 그 ‘적합한 사람’은 여러 요소의 조합입니다.
Jensen Huang: 그중 하나는 그냥… 당신이 그 사람을 좋아해야 한다는 거예요.
진행자: 음.

Jensen Huang: Colette는 첫 주에 제게 이렇게 물었어요.
Jensen Huang: ‘Jensen, 제가 CFO를 얼마나 오래 하길 원하세요?’
Jensen Huang: 저는 ‘우리 둘 중 누가 죽을 때까지’라고 했죠.
진행자: (웃음)

Jensen Huang: 왜냐하면 다른 답은 말이 안 되거든요.
Jensen Huang: 다른 어떤 답도 다 틀린 답입니다.
Jensen Huang: 왜 끝 날짜가 있어야 하죠?
Jensen Huang: 끝은, 그녀가 NVIDIA가 더 이상 본인에게 맞지 않다고 느끼는 때입니다.

Jensen Huang: 이건 Colette에게도 해당되고, 제 직속 60명 모두에게 해당됩니다.
Jensen Huang: 저는 의자를 오래 비워둡니다.
Jensen Huang: 회사는 계속 굴러가요.

Jensen Huang: 사람들은 ‘미션(mission)’으로 몰려듭니다.
Jensen Huang: 해야 할 일이 있으면, 그 일을 하려고 사람들이 몰려들어요.
Jensen Huang: 최악의 경우엔 제가 제 힘껏 메우고 계속 가면 됩니다.

Jensen Huang: 이건 철학이에요.
Jensen Huang: 잘못된 사람으로 의자를 채우지 마세요.
Jensen Huang: 적합한 사람이 올 때까지 기다리세요.

Jensen Huang: 그리고 ‘좋은 직원’이나 ‘좋은 리더’가 무엇이냐고 늘 묻는데,
Jensen Huang: 놀랍게도 저는 답이 없습니다.
Jensen Huang: 이유는 이거예요.

Jensen Huang: 다들 똑똑하고, 다들 유능합니다.
Jensen Huang: 어디서든 CFO를 데려오면, 그 사람은 유능해요.
Jensen Huang: 충분히 유능합니다.
Jensen Huang: CEO도 마찬가지예요. 저는 전 세계 CEO들과 일하는데, 모두 유능합니다.

Jensen Huang: 제가 같이 일하면서 ‘와, 정말 유능하고 똑똑하다’고 느끼는 경우가 많아요.
Jensen Huang: 그런데도 결국 NVIDIA의 ‘마법’은,
Jensen Huang: 함께 있는 사람들의 ‘화학작용(chemistry)’의 조합에서 나옵니다.

Jensen Huang: 저는 그걸 ‘기업의 성격(corporate character)’이라고 부르고 싶어요.
Jensen Huang: 그리고 그 성격은 어딘가에서 옵니다.
Jensen Huang: 그게 위대한 회사를 정의하죠.

Jensen Huang: 칩을 만드는 회사는 많습니다. 우리는 GPU(그래픽처리장치)를 발명했지만,
Jensen Huang: 물량(volume) 관점에서 보면 우리는 세상에서 가장 작은 GPU 회사예요.
Jensen Huang: 이상하게 들리죠? 하지만 그래요.
Jensen Huang: 다들 제가 만드는 것보다 더 많은 GPU를 만듭니다.
Jensen Huang: 어떤 ‘랜덤한’ 사람이 저보다 더 많이 만드는 수준이니까요.

Jensen Huang: 그러니 분명 그게 핵심이 아닙니다.
Jensen Huang: 뭔가 마법이 있어요. 기업 문화(culture), 기업 성격(character)에요.
Jensen Huang: 역경(adversity)에서 팀이 어떻게 뭉치는지요.

Jensen Huang: 사람들은 우리가 그냥 순탄하게 걷는 것처럼 보지만,
Jensen Huang: Grace Blackwell을 양산(production) 단계로 끌고 가는 과정은
Jensen Huang: 거의 우리 회사 등을 부러뜨릴 뻔했습니다.
Jensen Huang: 하지만 우리는 부러지지 않으려고 버텼죠.

Jensen Huang: 그건 대단히 복잡하고, 스케일이 엄청나고, 기대치가 극단적으로 높았어요.
Jensen Huang: 우리가 그 기대를 충족하고, 더 나아가 초과 달성하기 위해 버텨낸 건
Jensen Huang: **100% 성격(character)**입니다.
Jensen Huang: 지능(intelligence)도 아니고, 노력(hard work)도 아니에요.

Jensen Huang: 열심히 일하는 사람은 많고, 똑똑한 사람도 많습니다.
Jensen Huang: 그건 100% 성격이에요.
Jensen Huang: 그게 어디서 오느냐… 그건 인터뷰로 만들어낼 수 없습니다.

Jensen Huang: 제가 믿는 건 이렇습니다.
Jensen Huang: 저는 사실 거의 누구든 NVIDIA에 데려오면, 우리가 그 사람에게 ‘성격’을 주입할 수 있다고 믿어요.
Jensen Huang: 그리고 그게 우리 회사의 마법입니다.

Jensen Huang: 우리는 고통을 견딜 수 있고, 엄청난 도전을 버텨서 반대편으로 나올 수 있어요.
Jensen Huang: 그리고 그걸 반복해서 할 수 있습니다.
Jensen Huang: 아주 적은 회사만이 팀으로 그렇게 할 수 있어요.

Jensen Huang: 보통은 누군가가 뒤처집니다.
Jensen Huang: 보통은 이런 큰 도전을 지나고 나면 누군가 떠나요.
Jensen Huang: 기분이 상해서, 누군가에게 책임을 뒤집어씌워서, 해고돼서,
Jensen Huang: 혹은 어떤 식으로든… 결국은 늘 ‘누구 탓’이 있거든요.

Jensen Huang: 회사와 팀을 만드는 현실을 분명히 합시다.
Jensen Huang: 경기에서 팀이 졌다면 ‘팀으로 졌다’고 말할 수 있지만,
Jensen Huang: 누가 패스를 떨어뜨렸는지는 분명합니다.
Jensen Huang: 그래서 그건 명확해야 해요.

Jensen Huang: 우리는 그걸 명확히 합니다.
Jensen Huang: 그런데 우리는 아주 안전한 환경(safe environment)을 가지고 있어요.
Jensen Huang: 과거에 패스를 떨어뜨린 사람들(저를 포함해서),
Jensen Huang: 저는 패스를 많이 떨어뜨렸고, 모두가 지켜보고 있었지만,
Jensen Huang: 패스를 떨어뜨렸다고 해서 아무도 해고되지 않았습니다.

Jensen Huang: 그래서 이 회사는 관용(tolerance), 용서(forgiveness),
Jensen Huang: 실수에서 배우기(learning from mistakes) 같은 성격을 키워왔습니다.

Jensen Huang: 그리고 제게 정말 중요한 조건이 몇 가지 있습니다.
Jensen Huang: 팀원들이 자기 자신을 전부 쏟아부었다면,
Jensen Huang: 그거면 제게는 충분합니다.

진행자: 그러니까… 당신은 사람을 잘 해고하지 않는다는 평판이 있죠.
진행자: 물론 누구든 해고를 좋아하진 않겠지만요.
진행자: 그러면 당신의 이론은 ‘팀이 사람을 더 낫게 만들어야 한다’는 건가요?
Jensen Huang: 네. 회사가 저를 더 낫게 만든 것처럼요.
진행자: 음.

Jensen Huang: 저는 그때의 제가 지금의 제가 아니었어요.
Jensen Huang: 지금 제가 아는 걸… 어떤 백과사전(encyclopedia)도 다 담을 수 없을 겁니다.
Jensen Huang: 누가 ‘NVIDIA에서 뭘 배웠냐’고 물으면서 책을 쓰라고 해도,
Jensen Huang: 저는 어디서부터 시작해야 할지조차 모르겠어요.

Jensen Huang: 그러니까 이 회사는 제게 ‘제가 될 기회’를 줬습니다.
Jensen Huang: 그리고 경영진 전체에게도 ‘그들이 될 기회’를 줬죠.
Jensen Huang: 저는 확신합니다. 그 60명 전부, 지금은 시작할 때와 다른 사람들입니다.

Jensen Huang: 지금 그들은 훌륭합니다.
Jensen Huang: 처음엔 ‘괜찮은’ 수준이었죠. 누구나 그렇잖아요.
Jensen Huang: 그래서 회사가 우리에게서 ‘위대함을 고문하듯(tortured)’ 끄집어냈고,
Jensen Huang: 회사가 우리에게 엄청난 성격(character)을 단련해줬습니다.

Jensen Huang: 그게 이 회사의 마법입니다.
Jensen Huang: 사람을 잃지 않으면서도, 동시에 회사가 당신을 포기하지도 않는 것.
Jensen Huang: 그게 우리의 위대함이라고 생각합니다.

Jensen Huang: 그래서 ‘그런 사람을 채용으로 데려올 수 있느냐’고요?
Jensen Huang: 네, 저는 가능하다고 믿습니다. 그리고 우리는 반복적으로 그걸 증명해왔습니다.

Jensen Huang: 들어오는 사람들은 ‘좋은’ 사람들이에요.
Jensen Huang: 저는 그들을 보면, ‘좋다’고 느낍니다.
Jensen Huang: 중요한 건, 제가 그들과 함께 일하는 걸 즐길 수 있어야 한다는 거예요.
Jensen Huang: 그들은 ‘나쁜 사람(jerk)’이면 안 됩니다.

Jensen Huang: 자기중심적(self-serving)이어도 안 되고요.
Jensen Huang: 저는 간단한 질문에 답을 못 하는 사람과는 일할 수 없습니다. 그게 제 트리거(trigger)예요.
Jensen Huang: 팀의 일부가 되고 싶어 해야 하고,
Jensen Huang: 투명(transparent)하고, 취약함(vulnerable)을 드러낼 수 있어야 하며, 배우려 해야 합니다.

Jensen Huang: 다 알 필요는 없어요.
Jensen Huang: 다만 ‘전부 배울’ 수는 있어야 합니다.
Jensen Huang: 그런 조건들이 충족되면, 우리는 그들에게 위대함을 단련해 줄 겁니다.

(이후 PART 2/5에서 계속)

2026-01-15_Jensen_Huang_Founder…